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Post by trapp76 on Oct 11, 2019 13:10:51 GMT -8
Trump's gonna get destroyed in the next election, doesn't matter who is running against him. He's going to get trounced. When you have places like Orange County turning blue now and states like Texas are actually in play.......you know he's going to be in trouble. People absolutely fucking hate him. I've never seen a politician inspire so much disgust from people in my lifetime, on both sides of the aisle (a lot of republicans absolutely despise him too).
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Post by tullabye on Oct 11, 2019 13:35:47 GMT -8
I seem to remember your similar views in 16. Do you think he’ll get “destroyed” as badly as he destroyed Hillary?
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Post by mistwell on Oct 11, 2019 14:03:15 GMT -8
This article is from this past month. I found it resonated well with me. LINKThe battle cry of the politically homelessAnyone moderate with a brain and anything to lose has largely gone silentBy Bridget Phetasy August 16, 2019 Like millions of other Americans, I’m exhausted. But I’m not tired from #Resisting or tired from screaming at a MAGA rally. I’m tired of the toxic tribalism infecting the very foundations of our democracy, straining our relationships, and poisoning our view of our fellow humans. I’m tired of everyone being outraged, getting worked up over the latest news cycle only to forget about it two hours later. Tired of being afraid to voice my own opinions, of knowing how saying the wrong thing at a barbecue while someone is filming on their iPhone could result in a nationwide clarion call for my head on a pike. I’m tired of rage mobs and cancelations. 2016 was the breaking point, or at least a watershed moment, when the vilification of diverse opinion exploded. Trump vs. Hillary forced everything into a binary, and suddenly bipartisanship and moderation became radical positions to take. Now, you aren’t just voting out of habit or, God forbid, voting for your own interests. Every vote is considered a statement on your personal identity and worth. Your value, who you are, what kind of world you want, whether or not you’re a good person or an evil person…it all boils down to which lever you pull. Damn your reasons. Vote for the ‘right’ person, or else you are a fascist, or a racist, or a globalist, or a communist. Politically disinterested citizens like me have increasingly been pulled off the sidelines and into this incredibly divisive political climate, unwilling combatants in a battle fought among fiercely partisan tribes. Many are being bullied into involving themselves in the process, because intolerance and shaming have become features of the American life. Thanks in no small part to social media, the simple act of expressing your opinion, or even going so far as to ask questions, has begun to negatively affect lives and destroy people. You may have once fancied yourself a good progressive,while also having the opinion that there are only two genders. Or you may describe yourself as a staunch conservative, but tend to think racial targeting by police is a problem. Or the cardinal sin: you may have decided to vote for a candidate you felt better represented your concerns. Upon voicing on social media what you think are fairly normal, moderate views, you find out something you didn’t know — YOU ARE THE ENEMY. And not just the enemy: you’re evil. After 2016’s chaotic impact on The Culture took hold, each mere opinion or vote became life or death in the fight for the survival of civilization — and you are either for civilization or against it. The trouble is, everyone believes they’re on the ‘right side of history’ and justifies abhorrent behavior in service of that belief. Families are divided. Extremes have become more extreme and shades of gray are shunned. Expressions of nuance are mocked. Anyone moderate with a brain and anything to lose has largely gone silent. I get it, too. I understand why the silent majority is uneasy. They’re not wrong to worry that sharing their opinion on Facebook could cost them their livelihood. Most people are just trying to raise their families and pay their bills, and pine for the days when they only had to think about politics every few years. Now, millions of independent thinkers – recently polled at almost 70 percent of the American population and labeled ‘the exhausted majority’ — are harboring intense feelings of political homelessness and ideological isolation. Both parties demand totalitarian-like devotion to their ideology and if you’re indifferent, apathetic or nuanced in your approach to politics, you’ll end up in the wasteland of the center — tribeless, unprotected and increasingly insulated. But you aren’t alone. My inboxes have become something of a confession booth for people who have issues with their own side (or sympathy for their political opponents). People I speak to at length in person have all manner of opinions and thoughts that they not only didn’t feel comfortable admitting publicly, but for which they go out of their way to craft an online image that portrays the opposite. The trouble with living under mob law is that no one can be honest. But this siloing of the public and private personas needs to stop. We all abandon our duty as citizens when we put party loyalty over thinking critically and speaking truthfully. We can’t expect integrity from our leaders if we don’t expect it of ourselves. It’s absolutely our duty as citizens to denounce demagoguery where we see it. To fight corruption. To push back against attacks on free speech, due process and the scientific method. To combat racism, sexism, anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry. To continue to extend the gains made by the civil rights movement. To demand compromise and moderation. This starts with fighting our own tribal instincts and laziness and educating ourselves. We might not all see eye-to-eye on how to best make America even greater — but we need to be able to have a conversation about it and that starts with extending good faith and grace to people with whom we disagree. It doesn’t start with calling everyone who disagrees with us garbage. Democracy doesn’t die in the darkness; it dies when politics become team sports, in full view of a bloodthirsty, cheering electorate. We will return to the Dark Ages or we will evolve. Is that likely? I dunno. Have we evolved that much from the Roman Colosseum? Barreling into 2020 — it doesn’t seem like it. While both sides increasingly weaponize reason and peddle conspiracy in order to defend insanity, millions of sensible, moderate Americans grapple with the choice to join a tribe, tune out, or go insane. Opt to tune out and you’re ‘carrying water for Nazis’ or a ‘cuckservative.’ Join a tribe, and you have to completely abandon your ability to think critically. No matter what — everyone seems to be going crazy. The exhausted majority could be the key to combating polarization and saving the world. If only we weren’t so afraid. |
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Post by trapp76 on Oct 11, 2019 14:08:56 GMT -8
I seem to remember your similar views in 16. Do you think he’ll get “destroyed” as badly as he destroyed Hillary? .........and I seem to remember you saying Obama would lose in 2008 and 2012. I also remember you saying the dems wouldn't win the house back in 2018. We'll see what happens, but the main reason Hillary "lost" (she actually won the popular vote) is because she didn't inspire enough dem voters to go to the polls, either because they didn't like her (I personally didn't like her, but still voted for her by default) or they just assumed Trump would never win (because that's what all the polls said), dem turnout was way low compared to Obama in 08 and 12. Only 25% of eligible voters voted for Trump, yet he was still able to win. However in the 2018 mid-terms, dem voter turnout was HUGE because dem voters absolutely despise trump so much. That is going to be the difference this time around, he is so hated, that those dem voters are all going to be off their asses and voting against him in 2020. He is gonna get beaten badly. Those voters won't be sleeping this time around, he's awoken the beast. Don't be surprised if the dems take back the senate too. |
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Post by trapp76 on Oct 11, 2019 14:11:11 GMT -8
This article is from this past month. I found it resonated well with me. LINKThe battle cry of the politically homelessAnyone moderate with a brain and anything to lose has largely gone silentBy Bridget Phetasy August 16, 2019 Like millions of other Americans, I’m exhausted. But I’m not tired from #Resisting or tired from screaming at a MAGA rally. I’m tired of the toxic tribalism infecting the very foundations of our democracy, straining our relationships, and poisoning our view of our fellow humans. I’m tired of everyone being outraged, getting worked up over the latest news cycle only to forget about it two hours later. Tired of being afraid to voice my own opinions, of knowing how saying the wrong thing at a barbecue while someone is filming on their iPhone could result in a nationwide clarion call for my head on a pike. I’m tired of rage mobs and cancelations. 2016 was the breaking point, or at least a watershed moment, when the vilification of diverse opinion exploded. Trump vs. Hillary forced everything into a binary, and suddenly bipartisanship and moderation became radical positions to take. Now, you aren’t just voting out of habit or, God forbid, voting for your own interests. Every vote is considered a statement on your personal identity and worth. Your value, who you are, what kind of world you want, whether or not you’re a good person or an evil person…it all boils down to which lever you pull. Damn your reasons. Vote for the ‘right’ person, or else you are a fascist, or a racist, or a globalist, or a communist. Politically disinterested citizens like me have increasingly been pulled off the sidelines and into this incredibly divisive political climate, unwilling combatants in a battle fought among fiercely partisan tribes. Many are being bullied into involving themselves in the process, because intolerance and shaming have become features of the American life. Thanks in no small part to social media, the simple act of expressing your opinion, or even going so far as to ask questions, has begun to negatively affect lives and destroy people. You may have once fancied yourself a good progressive,while also having the opinion that there are only two genders. Or you may describe yourself as a staunch conservative, but tend to think racial targeting by police is a problem. Or the cardinal sin: you may have decided to vote for a candidate you felt better represented your concerns. Upon voicing on social media what you think are fairly normal, moderate views, you find out something you didn’t know — YOU ARE THE ENEMY. And not just the enemy: you’re evil. After 2016’s chaotic impact on The Culture took hold, each mere opinion or vote became life or death in the fight for the survival of civilization — and you are either for civilization or against it. The trouble is, everyone believes they’re on the ‘right side of history’ and justifies abhorrent behavior in service of that belief. Families are divided. Extremes have become more extreme and shades of gray are shunned. Expressions of nuance are mocked. Anyone moderate with a brain and anything to lose has largely gone silent. I get it, too. I understand why the silent majority is uneasy. They’re not wrong to worry that sharing their opinion on Facebook could cost them their livelihood. Most people are just trying to raise their families and pay their bills, and pine for the days when they only had to think about politics every few years. Now, millions of independent thinkers – recently polled at almost 70 percent of the American population and labeled ‘the exhausted majority’ — are harboring intense feelings of political homelessness and ideological isolation. Both parties demand totalitarian-like devotion to their ideology and if you’re indifferent, apathetic or nuanced in your approach to politics, you’ll end up in the wasteland of the center — tribeless, unprotected and increasingly insulated. But you aren’t alone. My inboxes have become something of a confession booth for people who have issues with their own side (or sympathy for their political opponents). People I speak to at length in person have all manner of opinions and thoughts that they not only didn’t feel comfortable admitting publicly, but for which they go out of their way to craft an online image that portrays the opposite. The trouble with living under mob law is that no one can be honest. But this siloing of the public and private personas needs to stop. We all abandon our duty as citizens when we put party loyalty over thinking critically and speaking truthfully. We can’t expect integrity from our leaders if we don’t expect it of ourselves. It’s absolutely our duty as citizens to denounce demagoguery where we see it. To fight corruption. To push back against attacks on free speech, due process and the scientific method. To combat racism, sexism, anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry. To continue to extend the gains made by the civil rights movement. To demand compromise and moderation. This starts with fighting our own tribal instincts and laziness and educating ourselves. We might not all see eye-to-eye on how to best make America even greater — but we need to be able to have a conversation about it and that starts with extending good faith and grace to people with whom we disagree. It doesn’t start with calling everyone who disagrees with us garbage. Democracy doesn’t die in the darkness; it dies when politics become team sports, in full view of a bloodthirsty, cheering electorate. We will return to the Dark Ages or we will evolve. Is that likely? I dunno. Have we evolved that much from the Roman Colosseum? Barreling into 2020 — it doesn’t seem like it. While both sides increasingly weaponize reason and peddle conspiracy in order to defend insanity, millions of sensible, moderate Americans grapple with the choice to join a tribe, tune out, or go insane. Opt to tune out and you’re ‘carrying water for Nazis’ or a ‘cuckservative.’ Join a tribe, and you have to completely abandon your ability to think critically. No matter what — everyone seems to be going crazy. The exhausted majority could be the key to combating polarization and saving the world. If only we weren’t so afraid. You can thank the toxic combination of talk radio, cable news and social media for this. When you can pick and choose your "news" to be whatever makes you feel good, the echo chambers take over. |
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Post by mistwell on Oct 11, 2019 14:49:41 GMT -8
This article is from this past month. I found it resonated well with me. LINKThe battle cry of the politically homelessAnyone moderate with a brain and anything to lose has largely gone silentBy Bridget Phetasy August 16, 2019 Cut for brevity You can thank the toxic combination of talk radio, cable news and social media for this. When you can pick and choose your "news" to be whatever makes you feel good, the echo chambers take over. Agreed. |
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Post by clippers1121 on Oct 11, 2019 14:50:43 GMT -8
What does the political spin on the Ukraine call matter when we have the transcript of the call. Everybody can see he was holding up money allocated for Ukraine until they delivered dirt on Biden and evidence that the DNC server that was hacked was in Ukraine and not in Russia. You don't need media spinning to figure out Ukraine was subject to a shakedown by the Trump administration.
And you are not going to learn shit by watching Fox news show like Hannity. Because he omits every part of every story that is not favorable to Trump. When he announced on the south lawn of the White House that he wanted China to investigate the Biden financial deals there it was not even reported by Hannity.
Deep state are career officials who work for both parties and try and do a good job. Trump and the Republicans hate them because he wants to be a dictator who can do whatever he wants and ignore all the laws. So this attack on the deep state is completely detrimental to our country and done by a president who has no intention of following the law.
His attack on the whistleblower asking him to be unmasked and tried for treason was another unlawful act that he Trump should be impeached for. You don't need a partisan filter to tell you what he did was wrong. Only people who delude themselves into thinking he is a strong and forceful president condone this type of behavior. What he is is a fascist dictator and 51% of the people want him impeached and removed from office.
Facts are facts regardless of whether you choose to ignore them or not. I watch the partisan media on both sides and sure both sides are biased but there are still basic recorded facts that don't change based on the spin put on them.
We can't fix this with impeachment and removal because Pence is just as corrupt as Trump is. Trump, Pompeo, Pence, and Barr all have to go. They are all corrupt as hell. We need to sweep them all out of office through the election of 2020. And I also hate Sanders and Warren because they will lose and they are too socialistic. Biden, Butigieg, Klobuchar, Yang, Harris, or Beto would all be better choices IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2019 16:12:50 GMT -8
What does the political spin on the Ukraine call matter when we have the transcript of the call. Everybody can see he was holding up money allocated for Ukraine until they delivered dirt on Biden and evidence that the DNC server that was hacked was in Ukraine and not in Russia. You don't need media spinning to figure out Ukraine was subject to a shakedown by the Trump administration. And you are not going to learn shit by watching Fox news show like Hannity. Because he omits every part of every story that is not favorable to Trump. When he announced on the south lawn of the White House that he wanted China to investigate the Biden financial deals there it was not even reported by Hannity. Deep state are career officials who work for both parties and try and do a good job. Trump and the Republicans hate them because he wants to be a dictator who can do whatever he wants and ignore all the laws. So this attack on the deep state is completely detrimental to our country and done by a president who has no intention of following the law. His attack on the whistleblower asking him to be unmasked and tried for treason was another unlawful act that he Trump should be impeached for. You don't need a partisan filter to tell you what he did was wrong. Only people who delude themselves into thinking he is a strong and forceful president condone this type of behavior. What he is is a fascist dictator and 51% of the people want him impeached and removed from office. Facts are facts regardless of whether you choose to ignore them or not. I watch the partisan media on both sides and sure both sides are biased but there are still basic recorded facts that don't change based on the spin put on them. We can't fix this with impeachment and removal because Pence is just as corrupt as Trump is. Trump, Pompeo, Pence, and Barr all have to go. They are all corrupt as hell. We need to sweep them all out of office through the election of 2020. And I also hate Sanders and Warren because they will lose and they are too socialistic. Biden, Butigieg, Klobuchar, Yang, Harris, or Beto would all be better choices IMO. it is surprisingly not so simple. From what I’ve heard, the interpretation of the transcript heavily depends on what you think of trump in the first place. It is only compounded by the failing of the mueller report to cause articles of impeachment. So it is easy to frame this inquiry as another witch hunt. I always thought the whole mueller report and collusion allegations were dead ends but I think this could have some legs on it though as long as whistleblowers don’t become the focus. Pence hasn’t really done anything as far as I can tell. He does what almost all Vice Presidents do...listen to the president. |
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Post by corkscrew on Oct 11, 2019 16:32:59 GMT -8
I don’t really want to deal with the entirety of your post, it’s nothing more than a regurgitation of all the standard Fox News talking points — not a single original thought or observation, not one, just a series of repetitions by a trained beast of burden wearing blinders on each side of its head and a nose ring attached to a rope to indicate which way to go next. But I will respond to that first sentence. Are you willing to back up your bold certitude with a wager? I am willing to bet that Donald Trump will not win a second term. Wanna have a go at it? Okay I’ ll bet you a steak dinner at the restaurant that makes sense between the two of us. That way we can meet and discuss the election results civilly over a good bottle of wine and dinner. What do you say? As for your assertion I think you are aware that your stupid party of choice ( I guess) as usual is anything but transparent and full of hypocrisies to numerous to mention. Your party’s in denial. Hillary is still going around spouting that she won the election. What a complete corrupt moron she is. You know that Fox (the only true news source) is and has been correct since the election. Try them out you’ll likely learn something. On the other hand your fake news sources have been in complete shambles, constantly wrong, hiring corrupt deep staters that are in big trouble and know it, firing people in the process, while watching their ratings flush down the toilet and eating humble pie time and again. Why do you think that is? You profess to be smart but go along with any fake narrative because you lost a fair election very badly and can’t deal with the inconvenient truths. Actually, this is more what I had in mind: The loser of the bet will create a thread with the title “I’ve Been Wrong, I’ve Been a Fool”. The text of the initial post of the thread will be written by the winner of the bet for the loser to post. The winner can compose the post any way he wants — 500 words or less — and the loser must post it, unchanged, as if it were his own words. Furthermore, for an entire year subsequent to the post, the loser must never disavow in any thread on this forum, any portion, any opinion, any thought, or any substance contained in the post. The idea of the bet is 1) for the loser to eat his words publicly and humbly, and 2) with any luck and cosmic justice, maybe the loser will get humbled enough to learn something… Maybe… |
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Post by mistwell on Oct 11, 2019 16:51:44 GMT -8
Oh man. That's an awesome bet Corkscrew  I approve! |
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Post by corkscrew on Oct 11, 2019 16:52:42 GMT -8
I seem to remember your similar views in 16. Do you think he’ll get “destroyed” as badly as he destroyed Hillary? .........and I seem to remember you saying Obama would lose in 2008 and 2012. I also remember you saying the dems wouldn't win the house back in 2018. We'll see what happens, but the main reason Hillary "lost" (she actually won the popular vote) is because she didn't inspire enough dem voters to go to the polls, either because they didn't like her (I personally didn't like her, but still voted for her by default) or they just assumed Trump would never win (because that's what all the polls said), dem turnout was way low compared to Obama in 08 and 12. Only 25% of eligible voters voted for Trump, yet he was still able to win. However in the 2018 mid-terms, dem voter turnout was HUGE because dem voters absolutely despise trump so much. That is going to be the difference this time around, he is so hated, that those dem voters are all going to be off their asses and voting against him in 2020. He is gonna get beaten badly. Those voters won't be sleeping this time around, he's awoken the beast. Don't be surprised if the dems take back the senate too. I'm curious. Of all the reasons you provided for the outcome of the 2016 election, one of them was not Russian interference. Do you think the total 79,000 votes that swung the election in Wisconsin , Michigan, and Pennsylvania were not at all affected by the Russians? |
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Post by tullabye on Oct 11, 2019 17:13:32 GMT -8
Okay I’ ll bet you a steak dinner at the restaurant that makes sense between the two of us. That way we can meet and discuss the election results civilly over a good bottle of wine and dinner. What do you say? As for your assertion I think you are aware that your stupid party of choice ( I guess) as usual is anything but transparent and full of hypocrisies to numerous to mention. Your party’s in denial. Hillary is still going around spouting that she won the election. What a complete corrupt moron she is. You know that Fox (the only true news source) is and has been correct since the election. Try them out you’ll likely learn something. On the other hand your fake news sources have been in complete shambles, constantly wrong, hiring corrupt deep staters that are in big trouble and know it, firing people in the process, while watching their ratings flush down the toilet and eating humble pie time and again. Why do you think that is? You profess to be smart but go along with any fake narrative because you lost a fair election very badly and can’t deal with the inconvenient truths. Actually, this is more what I had in mind: The loser of the bet will create a thread with the title “I’ve Been Wrong, I’ve Been a Fool”. The text of the initial post of the thread will be written by the winner of the bet for the loser to post. The winner can compose the post any way he wants — 500 words or less — and the loser must post it, unchanged, as if it were his own words. Furthermore, for an entire year subsequent to the post, the loser must never disavow in any thread on this forum, any portion, any opinion, any thought, or any substance contained in the post. The idea of the bet is 1) for the loser to eat his words publicly and humbly, and 2) with any luck and cosmic justice, maybe the loser will get humbled enough to learn something… Maybe… No thanks. You earned that award ward in 16 and didn’t say a thing. So we’d be even if you win in the “fool” category. I want to test your moxie. If you win you’ll be able to say what you will and get a great meal on top of it. My offer stands. |
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Post by tullabye on Oct 11, 2019 17:15:44 GMT -8
.........and I seem to remember you saying Obama would lose in 2008 and 2012. I also remember you saying the dems wouldn't win the house back in 2018. We'll see what happens, but the main reason Hillary "lost" (she actually won the popular vote) is because she didn't inspire enough dem voters to go to the polls, either because they didn't like her (I personally didn't like her, but still voted for her by default) or they just assumed Trump would never win (because that's what all the polls said), dem turnout was way low compared to Obama in 08 and 12. Only 25% of eligible voters voted for Trump, yet he was still able to win. However in the 2018 mid-terms, dem voter turnout was HUGE because dem voters absolutely despise trump so much. That is going to be the difference this time around, he is so hated, that those dem voters are all going to be off their asses and voting against him in 2020. He is gonna get beaten badly. Those voters won't be sleeping this time around, he's awoken the beast. Don't be surprised if the dems take back the senate too. I'm curious. Of all the reasons you provided for the outcome of the 2016 election, one of them was not Russian interference. Do you think the total 79,000 votes that swung the election in Wisconsin , Michigan, and Pennsylvania were not at all affected by the Russians? lol. Oh brother...Still living in your fairytale world of denial. |
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Post by tullabye on Oct 11, 2019 17:27:33 GMT -8
Actually, this is more what I had in mind: The loser of the bet will create a thread with the title “I’ve Been Wrong, I’ve Been a Fool”. The text of the initial post of the thread will be written by the winner of the bet for the loser to post. The winner can compose the post any way he wants — 500 words or less — and the loser must post it, unchanged, as if it were his own words. Furthermore, for an entire year subsequent to the post, the loser must never disavow in any thread on this forum, any portion, any opinion, any thought, or any substance contained in the post. The idea of the bet is 1) for the loser to eat his words publicly and humbly, and 2) with any luck and cosmic justice, maybe the loser will get humbled enough to learn something… Maybe… No thanks. You earned that award in 16 and didn’t say a thing. So we’d be even if you win in the “fool” category. I want to test your moxie. If you win you’ll be able to say what you will and get a great meal on top of it. My offer stands. |
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Post by corkscrew on Oct 11, 2019 20:05:16 GMT -8
No thanks. You earned that award in 16 and didn’t say a thing. So we’d be even if you win in the “fool” category. I want to test your moxie. If you win you’ll be able to say what you will and get a great meal on top of it. My offer stands.
Seriously??? Wow!
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I approve!