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Post by trapp76 on Mar 6, 2019 11:34:20 GMT -8
Speaking of Beverley, anyone notice he was the 1st person to Kuzma's aide after he tweaked his ankle? Not another Laker around him. Good observation. I usually agree with Dyce but saying that Beverley is considered a dirty player by some teams is questionable. Hard nosed absolutely, dirty...no way. I really hope we can bring back Beverley this off-season, I hate that he gets hurt all the time, but he is so damn likeable off the court, it's almost just worth it to have him in the locker room anyway, and he's good when he plays. I really like having him around and anyone who shit talks the Lakers and their fans is gold in my book. |
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Post by trapp76 on Mar 6, 2019 11:36:14 GMT -8
Doc is a top five coach. Luke is a bottom five. I like Igor Kokoskov of the Phoenix Suns better than I like Walton. I hope the Suns don't fire Igor and hire Walton after the Lakers fire him. Not sure that Walton can survive with Lebron there. Lebron does not like him. I don't either. Well Luke had to win this season. Only way he survives is if Lakers pull a miracle and make the playoffs. Doc has gotten bashed all the time over the last few years for his poor performance as a GM and for the Austin situation (deservedly so), but he deserves more credit than he has gotten as a coach over the last two years. He has done a really good job and more people should be talking about it. This season especially. |
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Post by tullabye on Mar 6, 2019 13:44:39 GMT -8
Good observation. I usually agree with Dyce but saying that Beverley is considered a dirty player by some teams is questionable. Hard nosed absolutely, dirty...no way. I really hope we can bring back Beverley this off-season, I hate that he gets hurt all the time, but he is so damn likeable off the court, it's almost just worth it to have him in the locker room anyway, and he's good when he plays. I really like having him around and anyone who shit talks the Lakers and their fans is gold in my book. Has he even missed one game this year? |
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Post by clipps on Mar 6, 2019 14:00:55 GMT -8
I noticed Beverley’s game elevated since the trades. I felt that Bev and Bradley together was just a bad fit. Gallo and Shamet’s shooting a long with Shai’s overall talent help hide Beverley’s imperfections. He can be our Matt Barnes.
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Post by mistwell on Mar 6, 2019 14:03:57 GMT -8
I didn't say you were the only one, I said you recently cited that as a reason you liked Walton as a coach, and then followed them up by saying wins isn't how you judge a coach. It's a contradiction and you appear to be trying to distance yourself from it now by saying other people mentioned it and claiming it's about lineups (which you didn't emphasize when you made those comments initially). As for it being players on the roster, Walton ALSO had that advantage with GSW. And now he's flailing, with the best player in the NBA and at least two other pretty good players on that roster. And rather than talk about those things, which the entire world is seeing right now, you're conveniently distracting from those as well. Bottom line, Walton appears right now to be a bad coach. Certainly worse than Doc Rivers. I'm not distracting from it. I've been chatting about what I think of coaching for years. I didn't think I had to repeat all of the past conversations or past viewpoints. For example, trapp76 has repeated several times over the years that he thinks many coaches over think things, and that he doesn't put as much of an emphasis on coaching either. So I know where he stands on those things. corkscrew doesn't like micro-managing coaches, and views Dunleavy Sr. as one of those. He uses the analogy of having people grow by thinking for themselves, as an example of why he likes coaches that don't always control plays. I thought the talk about lineups, with respect to my views, would have been carried over from past threads / discussions. I just don't see the pretty good players, especially when taking defense into account, as others do. Harrell, Lou Williams, Gallinari are better than any 2nd best player on the Lakers. Ok, then, if it sounds like I'm contradicting myself, then wins aren't why I think Walton is ok. When he had a roster with better defensive players, he could have better lineups. He doesn't have that right now this year IMO. Too many lackluster defensive players. So, the GM gave him a bad roster. As I've mentioned, I've been doing picks for every game this season (I started Nov. 12th, not at the beginning of the year, because I didn't know if I wanted to play.) I picked the Lakers to lose a lot at the beginning, because I didn't like their roster. Then I picked them to win a little more, when they did better than I thought. Now I've been back to picking them losing. To me, I only liked Rivers as a coach in Orlando. I couldn't get into him in Boston, I preferred Jim O'Brien over him. O'Brien was for previous Celtics coach. Every time you tell me what other posters think, you're distracting. The topic has NOTHING to do with what other posters think. Telling me what they think is you trying to appeal to authority or mob, both logical fallacies and both usually used to distract from the topic. As for the Clippers having better players, that's silly. Even Doc Rivers just said: “We’re not that good,” Doc Rivers said before Monday’s game. “The best part about this team is that they know that. We know if we don’t do all the things [we’re] required to, we won’t win.” And he's right. We're not that good. We have a group of role players who are just doing what they're supposed to do. Ingram is pretty good. Kuzma is pretty good. Ball is pretty good. Even Rondo and McGee can be good. However these guys are only pretty good if they're focusing on their roles. And they're not. Because Walton IS A SHITTY COACH. He cannot motivate his team. He cannot organize his team. He cannot teach his players their roles. He cannot persuade his players to do their jobs. He's a total failure. On GSW, he had a group already trained up by a good coach. All he had to do was babysit them at that point - he didn't need to organize them or persuade them to do their roles or learn their roles, because they already knew their roles and were already doing their roles. You're judging him as a substitute teacher and being a head coach isn't the same. Right now, people are talking about nominating Doc for Coach of the Year. You know how many people are talking about Walton in those terms? Nobody. Walton's own mom wouldn't talk about him that way right now. Lakers apparently want to steal away Doc Rivers as their coach. You know how many teams are looking forward to oferring Walton a head coach job? Zero. |
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Post by clippers1121 on Mar 6, 2019 15:14:45 GMT -8
These Lakers assets that were going to be traded for Davis are not doing too well. Ball injured. Kuzma injured. Ingram injured. Zubac traded. But they will have a better first round draft pick to trade. Lakers play Denver tonight. All these guys injured they are going to have a tough time. Denver has a three game losing streak so they are not going to go easy on them.
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Post by samiam19 on Mar 6, 2019 15:48:40 GMT -8
Doc is definitely not coach of the year.... if we kept Bradley we would be out of the playoff race. We should be talking about GM of the year for all those amazing trades we pulled off
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Post by mistwell on Mar 6, 2019 16:25:44 GMT -8
Doc is definitely not coach of the year.... if we kept Bradley we would be out of the playoff race. We should be talking about GM of the year for all those amazing trades we pulled off We SHOULD be out of the playoff race frankly given the players we have left, and I think it's pretty amazing we are still in the playoff race given what we're working with. Only team in the playoff race starting two rookies. One of the youngest teams in the playoff race. Roleplayers who have literally only had 3 practices with the team. Gallinari as our best starter. I mean come on, give up SOMETHING for the fact that this team doesn't know the word quit! |
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Post by clipps on Mar 6, 2019 16:39:31 GMT -8
I would admit that Doc has been superb as a coach this year and should win coach of the year. Doc did have some head scratchers, though. I felt he did a poor job coaching in the second game in Denver. Outside of that, Doc has been incredible. Obviously the FO should get a lot of credit as well. To put together a bunch of guys in less than 2 years the way they did and they just so happen to be hard working team players and have amazing chemistry is truely impressive. These guys love being Clippers. They love being the underdogs. They love watching the Lakers get plastered all over the media for all the wrong reasons. These are all the reasons and then some why most of not all of us are Clippers fans. Lob City was fun but did not represent what it’s meant to be a Clipper. CP and Blake were Laker players wearing the wrong uniforms.
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Post by tullabye on Mar 6, 2019 17:37:23 GMT -8
Doc is definitely not coach of the year.... if we kept Bradley we would be out of the playoff race. We should be talking about GM of the year for all those amazing trades we pulled off We SHOULD be out of the playoff race frankly given the players we have left, and I think it's pretty amazing we are still in the playoff race given what we're working with. Only team in the playoff race starting two rookies. One of the youngest teams in the playoff race. Roleplayers who have literally only had 3 practices with the team. Gallinari as our best starter. I mean come on, give up SOMETHING for the fact that this team doesn't know the word quit! We have a very good team. Plenty of talent. |
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Post by trapp76 on Mar 7, 2019 11:34:18 GMT -8
I really hope we can bring back Beverley this off-season, I hate that he gets hurt all the time, but he is so damn likeable off the court, it's almost just worth it to have him in the locker room anyway, and he's good when he plays. I really like having him around and anyone who shit talks the Lakers and their fans is gold in my book. Has he even missed one game this year? Nope............(knocks heavily on the closest wood I can find). |
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Post by trapp76 on Mar 7, 2019 11:42:23 GMT -8
I would admit that Doc has been superb as a coach this year and should win coach of the year. Doc did have some head scratchers, though. I felt he did a poor job coaching in the second game in Denver. Outside of that, Doc has been incredible. Obviously the FO should get a lot of credit as well. To put together a bunch of guys in less than 2 years the way they did and they just so happen to be hard working team players and have amazing chemistry is truely impressive. These guys love being Clippers. They love being the underdogs. They love watching the Lakers get plastered all over the media for all the wrong reasons. These are all the reasons and then some why most of not all of us are Clippers fans. Lob City was fun but did not represent what it’s meant to be a Clipper. CP and Blake were Laker players wearing the wrong uniforms. I don't agree with that at all, the lob city teams made the Clippers franchise consistently relevant for the first time in it's entire existence. I enjoyed watching those teams play, they were good. Bad injury luck in the playoffs + bad GM performance by Doc sunk those teams unfortunately, they could have gone much farther than they did if not for that. We also wouldn't have most of the assets we have now without being able to get all the value we got back for Blake and CP in those two trades. These are all the players/assets we got in return just for Blake and CP: - 2 Max Cap Slots next off-season - SGA - Shamet - Zubac - Beverley - L. Williams - Harrell - Temple - Green - Chandler - Miami 1st rounder - Sixers 1st rounder - DET 2nd rounder - PHI 2nd rounder - We also used the 1st rounder we got from HOU to help facilitate the sign and trade for Gallo We got all that for TWO PLAYERS. |
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Post by clipps on Mar 7, 2019 11:47:54 GMT -8
It’s amazing how fast Jerry West fixed all of Docs mistakes and has us set up for immediate success. Put Kawhi on this roster and we’re contending for the Championship.
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Post by nuraman00 on Mar 7, 2019 14:06:55 GMT -8
I really hope we can bring back Beverley this off-season, I hate that he gets hurt all the time, but he is so damn likeable off the court, it's almost just worth it to have him in the locker room anyway, and he's good when he plays. I really like having him around and anyone who shit talks the Lakers and their fans is gold in my book. Has he even missed one game this year? He's had a perfect attendance record.  |
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Post by nuraman00 on Mar 7, 2019 14:50:29 GMT -8
I'm not distracting from it. I've been chatting about what I think of coaching for years. I didn't think I had to repeat all of the past conversations or past viewpoints. For example, trapp76 has repeated several times over the years that he thinks many coaches over think things, and that he doesn't put as much of an emphasis on coaching either. So I know where he stands on those things. corkscrew doesn't like micro-managing coaches, and views Dunleavy Sr. as one of those. He uses the analogy of having people grow by thinking for themselves, as an example of why he likes coaches that don't always control plays. I thought the talk about lineups, with respect to my views, would have been carried over from past threads / discussions. I just don't see the pretty good players, especially when taking defense into account, as others do. Harrell, Lou Williams, Gallinari are better than any 2nd best player on the Lakers. Ok, then, if it sounds like I'm contradicting myself, then wins aren't why I think Walton is ok. When he had a roster with better defensive players, he could have better lineups. He doesn't have that right now this year IMO. Too many lackluster defensive players. So, the GM gave him a bad roster. As I've mentioned, I've been doing picks for every game this season (I started Nov. 12th, not at the beginning of the year, because I didn't know if I wanted to play.) I picked the Lakers to lose a lot at the beginning, because I didn't like their roster. Then I picked them to win a little more, when they did better than I thought. Now I've been back to picking them losing. To me, I only liked Rivers as a coach in Orlando. I couldn't get into him in Boston, I preferred Jim O'Brien over him. O'Brien was for previous Celtics coach. Every time you tell me what other posters think, you're distracting. The topic has NOTHING to do with what other posters think. Telling me what they think is you trying to appeal to authority or mob, both logical fallacies and both usually used to distract from the topic. As for the Clippers having better players, that's silly. Even Doc Rivers just said: “We’re not that good,” Doc Rivers said before Monday’s game. “The best part about this team is that they know that. We know if we don’t do all the things [we’re] required to, we won’t win.” And he's right. We're not that good. We have a group of role players who are just doing what they're supposed to do. Ingram is pretty good. Kuzma is pretty good. Ball is pretty good. Even Rondo and McGee can be good. However these guys are only pretty good if they're focusing on their roles. And they're not. Because Walton IS A SHITTY COACH. He cannot motivate his team. He cannot organize his team. He cannot teach his players their roles. He cannot persuade his players to do their jobs. He's a total failure. On GSW, he had a group already trained up by a good coach. All he had to do was babysit them at that point - he didn't need to organize them or persuade them to do their roles or learn their roles, because they already knew their roles and were already doing their roles. You're judging him as a substitute teacher and being a head coach isn't the same. Right now, people are talking about nominating Doc for Coach of the Year. You know how many people are talking about Walton in those terms? Nobody. Walton's own mom wouldn't talk about him that way right now. Lakers apparently want to steal away Doc Rivers as their coach. You know how many teams are looking forward to oferring Walton a head coach job? Zero. That's fair for your point of view. From my point of view, I don't think most coaches could organize these players in their roles, because they don't fit together. And to me, that's on the GM. I don't think Stevens or Gentry could do much differently. Perhaps you think their roles could be different, and that's why you don't like Walton's coaching. To me, I think he's used them better than I thought, hence why I think their offense is better than I expected. Their foul shooting, and defensive issues, are things that I don't think there can be anything done to fix. Hence the emphasis on the GM. I expected worse offense from them then they've shown. Today Sam Amick was criticizing their roster construction. So now that's at least 1 radio host (Jonas Knox), one NBA broadcaster (Grant Napear), and one NBA journalist (Sam Amick) in recent weeks that have criticized Johnson. Amick also mentioned Pelinka too. Maybe some would put it on Walton. But as also seen, some are putting it on Johnson / Pelinka too. I guess it's a difference in perspective. You have a higher opinion of the Lakers talent, and think he's not meeting your expectations. I have a lower opinion of their talent overall, and think they've fit a little better than I thought on offense. I kept picking them to lose games for the first few months, because I didn't like their fit. Maybe we could have seen what happened, if the Pelicans had traded for part of the Lakers roster, and seen how the Pelicans did. I bring up what other people think, because the topic is about what makes a good coach. Or the topic is how much impact does a coach have. Since this is a message board, I'm relaying different opinions on the topic, to try and have different perspectives together. I relayed what they thought, about this coaching topic. I might not agree with some of them, but I like to see where other people are coming from. I don't agree with corkscrew 's views on Dunleavy Sr., but I can understand what he liked in a coach now. A message board is meant to help people discuss and understand a topic. Distracting from the topic would be me bringing up their views on something not related to coaching. I disagree with Rivers that the Clippers don't have good players. Some people thought the Clippers would be better this year than last year, because Teodosic, Gallinari, and Beverley are "good when they play". That was what some people thought heading into the season. And to me, Gallinari was someone I preferred the Clippers to keeping over Harris, all year long. I always preferred to try and keep him (or not trade him away), like Harris. Walton not being nominated for coach of the year does not mean he's a terrible coach to me. And I don't agree with what a lot of those nominations anyways. I never understood Kobe Bryant getting all of those all-defensive team awards. He wasn't that great defensively. I never agreed with the praise Thibbadeau got earlier in his coaching career. I didn't understand how Jose Calderon could be left of the 2006 Rising Stars game. It seems like they forgot he was a rookie, because he was international. Fortunately, they didn't make that mistake later with Malcolm Brogdon. I don't agree with Russell Westbrook getting no MVP consideration, while Paul George is getting a lot of it. To me, they should both get about equal credit. So sometimes, I disagree a lot with how the NBA media voting or media biases work. They can praise guys like Thibbadeau (Chicago era) or Rivers Sr., and it will be among a list of things I disagree with. We don't have to get into any of these other topics. I'm just showing you that sometimes I disagree with who or what the NBA promotes. And if they promote Rivers Sr., I disagree. |
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