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Post by mistwell on Jan 11, 2024 10:13:49 GMT -8
There are 30 teams, and each can afford 2 max players. So is PG a top 60 player? Yes. So yes, he is a max player. The max increases so of course the current max is higher than a guy who was a max when he was signed at a time when the max was lower. In a few years, this max will likely seem low relative to what players are signed for then. That's just how it goes. Kawhi was signed for less than the max, and for less years than the max, and as far as we can tell without a player option (and I think no player no-trade clause too). So yeah, if PG were signed for something similar that would be a good deal. It would be a good deal whether we want to keep him or trade him. I disagree. The new CBA changes the equation for most teams dramatically. Every team will not automatically fill up two $50m max slots just because they "can." There are not 60 players in the league worth that large percentage of a salary cap or worth forcing teams into the second apron. PG at this stage is not worth that type of contract. He's an inefficient shooter and turnover prone. He takes ill advised shots. He needs an elite guard to operate. If the Clippers sign him to a $50m extension it will be an albatross contract. The Clippers will be stuck and not able to get rid of that contract if or when it doesn't work out with him. If they let him walk, I do not see any team signing him to more than $30m. His agent knows this as well. Harden is more valuable to this team than PG. Hopefully whatever they sign PG does not hurt their ability to sign Harden. His efficiency rating is 19.3, marking him as an efficient shooter. It was 19.6 last season without Harden. His career average is 19.4. The CBA changes were not nearly as drastic as you seem to think. The cap went up along with the max contract. You're going to see lots of deals at $50M and over for the next couple of years. He's easily in that category.
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Post by gilp5 on Jan 11, 2024 10:31:46 GMT -8
I disagree. The new CBA changes the equation for most teams dramatically. Every team will not automatically fill up two $50m max slots just because they "can." There are not 60 players in the league worth that large percentage of a salary cap or worth forcing teams into the second apron. PG at this stage is not worth that type of contract. He's an inefficient shooter and turnover prone. He takes ill advised shots. He needs an elite guard to operate. If the Clippers sign him to a $50m extension it will be an albatross contract. The Clippers will be stuck and not able to get rid of that contract if or when it doesn't work out with him. If they let him walk, I do not see any team signing him to more than $30m. His agent knows this as well. Harden is more valuable to this team than PG. Hopefully whatever they sign PG does not hurt their ability to sign Harden. His efficiency rating is 19.3, marking him as an efficient shooter. It was 19.6 last season without Harden. His career average is 19.4. The CBA changes were not nearly as drastic as you seem to think. The cap went up along with the max contract. You're going to see lots of deals at $50M and over for the next couple of years. He's easily in that category. His efficiency rating places him at #55 in the league. Meaning there are 54 more efficient shooters than him. Look at the players that make around $30m and that's where he fits in. Another one is CJ Macullum. His extension should not be more than 3 years/100m. Otherwise the Clippers will be stuck with an awful contract.
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Post by mistwell on Jan 11, 2024 10:39:09 GMT -8
His efficiency rating is 19.3, marking him as an efficient shooter. It was 19.6 last season without Harden. His career average is 19.4. The CBA changes were not nearly as drastic as you seem to think. The cap went up along with the max contract. You're going to see lots of deals at $50M and over for the next couple of years. He's easily in that category. His efficiency rating places him at #55 in the league. Meaning there are 54 more efficient shooters than him. Look at the players that make around $30m and that's where he fits in. Another one is CJ Macullum. His extension should not be more than 3 years/100m. Otherwise the Clippers will be stuck with an awful contract. Right because the highest efficiency ratings are dominated by centers who play close to the basket. For shooters, he's efficient. Sort by his position and you will find he's efficient. For whatever reason Hollinger has him on the PF and he ranks 11th in efficiency rating for PFs. He'd be 7th on the SF list where he belongs and 7th on the SG list where he sometimes plays. Again, because those players were signed when $30M was the max. They'd be signed to $50M if their contracts came up today, and when their contracts do come up it will be more than $50M. It's a 3 year contract not a 5 year one, and he be 36-37 in the final year not 39. He's not in decline right now even. I think you're too close to the situation - ask fans of other teams and they'd agree with me that would be a perfectly fine contract for a player like PG. Again, even if you don't personally like him, he's much more tradeable signed to a less-than-max deal for 3 years.
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Post by hitnrun24 on Jan 11, 2024 11:59:18 GMT -8
There are 30 teams, and each can afford 2 max players. So is PG a top 60 player? Yes. So yes, he is a max player. The max increases so of course the current max is higher than a guy who was a max when he was signed at a time when the max was lower. In a few years, this max will likely seem low relative to what players are signed for then. That's just how it goes. Kawhi was signed for less than the max, and for less years than the max, and as far as we can tell without a player option (and I think no player no-trade clause too). So yeah, if PG were signed for something similar that would be a good deal. It would be a good deal whether we want to keep him or trade him. I disagree. The new CBA changes the equation for most teams dramatically. Every team will not automatically fill up two $50m max slots just because they "can." There are not 60 players in the league worth that large percentage of a salary cap or worth forcing teams into the second apron. PG at this stage is not worth that type of contract. He's an inefficient shooter and turnover prone. He takes ill advised shots. He needs an elite guard to operate. If the Clippers sign him to a $50m extension it will be an albatross contract. The Clippers will be stuck and not able to get rid of that contract if or when it doesn't work out with him. If they let him walk, I do not see any team signing him to more than $30m. His agent knows this as well. Harden is more valuable to this team than PG. Hopefully whatever they sign PG does not hurt their ability to sign Harden. We always think guys are not going to get as much as they do, but I bet if you look back, almost every one of those guys ends up getting a max or near max deal. I agree the new CBA makes it a little more of something to consider, but with the cap going up too it offsets it. If George stays somewhat similar to what he is now then it won't be an albatross. If he declines badly then yes it will. They structured Kawhi's deal to be able to fit both PG and Harden. Harden's getting his contract here 100%. We can't compare guys who are on current contracts to what guys signing new contracts will get. Or guys who's max's are slightly lower due to less time in the league, I think the max on the 1st extension off a rookie deal is around 40m/year. If Mitchell or Ingram were free agents there'd be several teams lining up happy to pay them.
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Post by hitnrun24 on Jan 11, 2024 12:49:34 GMT -8
Paul George over his last 12 games:
- 24.9 PPG - 5.0 RPG - 50/46/89 splits - 50/108 3PT - 64% true shooting
He has his faults, but shooting those %'s on this volume is pretty unreal. There just aren't many players that can shoot 46% on 3's for that long on 9 attempts per game. You'll see some guys do it on way less volume.
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Post by clipanswerman on Jan 11, 2024 13:36:50 GMT -8
Paul George over his last 12 games: - 24.9 PPG - 5.0 RPG - 50/46/89 splits - 50/108 3PT - 64% true shooting He has his faults, but shooting those %'s on this volume is pretty unreal. There just aren't many players that can shoot 46% on 3's for that long on 9 attempts per game. You'll see some guys do it on way less volume. He's been great. The reason Harden is so valuable? In addition to Harden, look how much Zu has improved by getting some easy baskets and look how much Paul George has improved by not handling the ball.
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Post by hitnrun24 on Jan 11, 2024 14:00:49 GMT -8
Paul George over his last 12 games: - 24.9 PPG - 5.0 RPG - 50/46/89 splits - 50/108 3PT - 64% true shooting He has his faults, but shooting those %'s on this volume is pretty unreal. There just aren't many players that can shoot 46% on 3's for that long on 9 attempts per game. You'll see some guys do it on way less volume. He's been great. The reason Harden is so valuable? In addition to Harden, look how much Zu has improved by getting some easy baskets and look how much Paul George has improved by not handling the ball. I agree. This elevates Harden's legacy quite a bit for me. We saw how inconsistent the quality of shots these guys were getting compared to now. It worked against the bad teams, but against good defenses they'll live with step back jumpers and dribbling into the lane with nowhere to go. Another thing I'll give credit to Harden for is he puts his own %'s at risk by shooting the deep step back 3 any time we're not having a good possession at the end of the shot clock. It's not a super high % shot, but he still makes it more than others would.
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Post by corkscrew on Jan 11, 2024 15:31:41 GMT -8
Paul George over his last 12 games: - 24.9 PPG - 5.0 RPG - 50/46/89 splits - 50/108 3PT - 64% true shooting He has his faults, but shooting those %'s on this volume is pretty unreal. There just aren't many players that can shoot 46% on 3's for that long on 9 attempts per game. You'll see some guys do it on way less volume. And that’s only half the story. The other half, of course, is defense. And I don’t just mean blocks and steals, I mean the eye test of watching PG take opponents out of their game, forcing them out of their comfort zones, taking away their effectiveness and pressuring them into making mistakes. I love that about PG.
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Post by gilp5 on Jan 11, 2024 15:52:55 GMT -8
Paul George over his last 12 games: - 24.9 PPG - 5.0 RPG - 50/46/89 splits - 50/108 3PT - 64% true shooting He has his faults, but shooting those %'s on this volume is pretty unreal. There just aren't many players that can shoot 46% on 3's for that long on 9 attempts per game. You'll see some guys do it on way less volume. He's been great. The reason Harden is so valuable? In addition to Harden, look how much Zu has improved by getting some easy baskets and look how much Paul George has improved by not handling the ball. So CAM would you extend PG at $50m a year?
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Post by basketcase on Jan 11, 2024 16:18:47 GMT -8
The cap is going to be going up due to the tv/streaming deals that are coming up soon. The increases in the cap will be maxed at 10% per year, but that adds up quickly and will make big deals by todays standards, look not so large.
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Post by mistwell on Jan 12, 2024 21:31:00 GMT -8
So Glip5 do you consider tonight's game by PG an inefficient game? Or game before that?
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Post by gilp5 on Jan 12, 2024 23:31:58 GMT -8
So Glip5 do you consider tonight's game by PG an inefficient game? Or game before that? He has been playing really well lately. He's been here long enough to judge more than a few games. I think he's the 3rd most important player on our team to keep. I don't know how much we would decline if we didn't have him or replaced him with a player that makes half as much. When Kawhi was out this year, our team sucked even with PG.
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Post by corkscrew on Jan 13, 2024 1:55:17 GMT -8
So Glip5 do you consider tonight's game by PG an inefficient game? Or game before that? He has been playing really well lately. He's been here long enough to judge more than a few games. I think he's the 3rd most important player on our team to keep. I don't know how much we would decline if we didn't have him or replaced him with a player that makes half as much. When Kawhi was out this year, our team sucked even with PG. And yet he single-handedly carried the Clippers to their first Western Conference Finals 3 years ago when Kawhi went down. Has he declined since then?
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Post by basketcase on Jan 13, 2024 8:53:40 GMT -8
PG is an efficient scorer having the best shooting percentages of his career this season. 47%, 42%, 92% is impressive. Now that he is finally not the primary ball handler his turnovers have come under control, which had been his biggest weakness.
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Post by mistwell on Jan 13, 2024 8:58:14 GMT -8
PG about to hit top 100 all time scoring. He just passed Chris Bosh and Chris Webber, two Hall-Of-Famers on the All-Time Scoring list and is now 101st with 17,217 career points. He's 14 points from top 100. He's also 54th in PPG at 20.77 behind Havlicek 20.78 ahead of Nowitzki 20.74.
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