|
|
Post by hitnrun24 on May 2, 2024 16:11:46 GMT -8
Kawhi's knees are damaged goods, there's no good way to handle it. Unfortunately, it looks like it was almost definitively a move that didn't work out. 100% of GM's would've done it after he came off the 2019 championship and we would've been ok with him being available in the postseason even half the time, but 4 straight postseasons of missing most of the games is some bad luck on top of it too. Will this team ever have a healthy run other than the bubble when Doc torpedoed it by having a Harrell blindspot? Having SGA and those picks in hindsight and we'd have a more reliable winner. I'm sure Ballmer invests a lot in the doctors, but gotta be hard for him to accept that no one is able to figure out this inflammation
|
|
|
|
Post by gilp5 on May 2, 2024 16:58:44 GMT -8
Kawhi's knees are damaged goods, there's no good way to handle it. Unfortunately, it looks like it was almost definitively a move that didn't work out. 100% of GM's would've done it after he came off the 2019 championship and we would've been ok with him being available in the postseason even half the time, but 4 straight postseasons of missing most of the games is some bad luck on top of it too. Will this team ever have a healthy run other than the bubble when Doc torpedoed it by having a Harrell blindspot? Having SGA and those picks in hindsight and we'd have a more reliable winner. I'm sure Ballmer invests a lot in the doctors, but gotta be hard for him to accept that no one is able to figure out this inflammation We lost in the bubble for many reasons, it wasn't just Harrell. Check Kawhi's shooting percentage in the games we lost. It was bad. PG was awful. Many members of the team collapsed. |
|
|
|
Post by corkscrew on May 2, 2024 17:03:39 GMT -8
Kawhi's knees are damaged goods, there's no good way to handle it. Unfortunately, it looks like it was almost definitively a move that didn't work out. 100% of GM's would've done it after he came off the 2019 championship and we would've been ok with him being available in the postseason even half the time, but 4 straight postseasons of missing most of the games is some bad luck on top of it too. Will this team ever have a healthy run other than the bubble when Doc torpedoed it by having a Harrell blindspot? Having SGA and those picks in hindsight and we'd have a more reliable winner. I'm sure Ballmer invests a lot in the doctors, but gotta be hard for him to accept that no one is able to figure out this inflammation The hindsight woulda, coulda, shoulda blame needs to be placed squarely on Kawhi's shoulders. We had room for 2 max players, Kawhi being one of them, and Jimmy Butler was available. If Kawhi hadn't made that demand, we could have kept SGA and all the picks and signed both Kawhi and Butler. So the choice really was, on one hand PG or on the other hand Butler + SGA + all the picks. Kawhi shat the bed big time on that one. |
|
|
|
Post by gilp5 on May 2, 2024 17:05:47 GMT -8
Kawhi's knees are damaged goods, there's no good way to handle it. Unfortunately, it looks like it was almost definitively a move that didn't work out. 100% of GM's would've done it after he came off the 2019 championship and we would've been ok with him being available in the postseason even half the time, but 4 straight postseasons of missing most of the games is some bad luck on top of it too. Will this team ever have a healthy run other than the bubble when Doc torpedoed it by having a Harrell blindspot? Having SGA and those picks in hindsight and we'd have a more reliable winner. I'm sure Ballmer invests a lot in the doctors, but gotta be hard for him to accept that no one is able to figure out this inflammation The hindsight woulda, coulda, shoulda blame needs to be placed squarely on Kawhi's shoulders. We had room for 2 max players, Kawhi being one of them, and Jimmy Butler was available. If Kawhi hadn't made that demand, we could have kept SGA and all the picks and signed both Kawhi and Butler. So the choice really was, on one hand, PG or on the other hand or Butler + SGA + all the picks. Kawhi shat the bed big time on that one. Yes 100% agree. Kawhi as GM deserves all the blame. He forced the team into an awful awful trade that likely cost multiple championships. |
|
|
|
Post by corkscrew on May 2, 2024 21:02:15 GMT -8
The hindsight woulda, coulda, shoulda blame needs to be placed squarely on Kawhi's shoulders. We had room for 2 max players, Kawhi being one of them, and Jimmy Butler was available. If Kawhi hadn't made that demand, we could have kept SGA and all the picks and signed both Kawhi and Butler. So the choice really was, on one hand, PG or on the other hand or Butler + SGA + all the picks. Kawhi shat the bed big time on that one. Yes 100% agree. Kawhi as GM deserves all the blame. He forced the team into an awful awful trade that likely cost multiple championships. Players playing GM usually turns out to be a huge mistake. KD moving around from team to team, Harden doing the same, Kyrie, it hardly ever works out. It worked when KD went to Golden State but the Warriors were already champions and they didn't have to give up anything of much value to get him. It worked when Lebron went to Miami (with Chris Bosh,) but it didn't work when he went to the Lakers. And it didn't work when AD made the Lakers give up a ton of assets to get him. Failure after failure after failure. This also happens in the film business. Actors get star power and they decide they want to direct the movies they are playing in, and it fails 90% of the time. Power corrupts and makes people forget which lane they belong in. |
|
|
|
Post by v-ice on May 3, 2024 6:11:35 GMT -8
Excluding the bubble
213 have played a combine 13 playoff games together
6-7 record.
That’s the problem.
Maybe George wasn’t the right partner for Kawhi.
|
|
|
|
Post by hitnrun24 on May 3, 2024 11:05:41 GMT -8
Kawhi's knees are damaged goods, there's no good way to handle it. Unfortunately, it looks like it was almost definitively a move that didn't work out. 100% of GM's would've done it after he came off the 2019 championship and we would've been ok with him being available in the postseason even half the time, but 4 straight postseasons of missing most of the games is some bad luck on top of it too. Will this team ever have a healthy run other than the bubble when Doc torpedoed it by having a Harrell blindspot? Having SGA and those picks in hindsight and we'd have a more reliable winner. I'm sure Ballmer invests a lot in the doctors, but gotta be hard for him to accept that no one is able to figure out this inflammation The hindsight woulda, coulda, shoulda blame needs to be placed squarely on Kawhi's shoulders. We had room for 2 max players, Kawhi being one of them, and Jimmy Butler was available. If Kawhi hadn't made that demand, we could have kept SGA and all the picks and signed both Kawhi and Butler. So the choice really was, on one hand PG or on the other hand Butler + SGA + all the picks. Kawhi shat the bed big time on that one. They tried to sign Butler so to give Kawhi a little credit he didn't demand that it had to be George. But he wanted someone of that status. He tried getting Butler or Durant to come join him. Durant wanted to play with Kyrie and Butler wanted to go live in Miami. Once those guys signed, the Clippers started canvassing around the league to see if any other star players were available. OKC sensed desperation and tried to get as much out of it as possible. From the retelling of it from Doc it sounded more like they didn't know if Kawhi would've signed anyway, but they didn't want to risk it. Kawhi wanted someone and once he saw the Clippers move he was in. Doc said he thought Kawhi was leaning towards signing the Clippers either way, but you couldn't know for sure. They told him Shai was gonna be really good and he asked how long that was gonna take. You can understand that Kawhi ddin't want to waste a year or two waiting for the Clippers to get someone, but I think the hindsight is trying to get him to buy in that they would get someone and wouldn't have to mortgage the future which would also hurt him if they could do it later in the summer or mid season. |
|
|
|
Post by corkscrew on May 3, 2024 12:37:29 GMT -8
The hindsight woulda, coulda, shoulda blame needs to be placed squarely on Kawhi's shoulders. We had room for 2 max players, Kawhi being one of them, and Jimmy Butler was available. If Kawhi hadn't made that demand, we could have kept SGA and all the picks and signed both Kawhi and Butler. So the choice really was, on one hand PG or on the other hand Butler + SGA + all the picks. Kawhi shat the bed big time on that one. . But he wanted someone of that status. He tried getting Butler or Durant to come join him. Durant wanted to play with Kyrie and Butler wanted to go live in Miami. Once those guys signed, the Clippers started canvassing around the league to see if any other star players were available. OKC sensed desperation and tried to get as much out of it as possible. From the retelling of it from Doc it sounded more like they didn't know if Kawhi would've signed anyway, but they didn't want to risk it. Kawhi wanted someone and once he saw the Clippers move he was in. Doc said he thought Kawhi was leaning towards signing the Clippers either way, but you couldn't know for sure. They told him Shai was gonna be really good and he asked how long that was gonna take. You can understand that Kawhi ddin't want to waste a year or two waiting for the Clippers to get someone, but I think the hindsight is trying to get him to buy in that they would get someone and wouldn't have to mortgage the future which would also hurt him if they could do it later in the summer or mid season. I was not aware of this, and the questions I am about to ask are not questioning the validity of what you are saying, but what I don't understand is, if all Kawhi wanted was to play with someone else of that stature, why didn't he just go join Lebron with the Lakers? And why would Butler want to live in Miami 12 months a year so badly that he would prefer playing there without a co-star rather than playing with Kawhi in Los Angeles and still live in Miami 6 months a year if he loves it so much. When Butler left Minnesota, he was vigorously and loudly complaining about the lack of desire to win. He made it clear that winning was most important to him. He didn't sound to me like someone who would give up a better chance to win for the pleasure of living in a specific city. The problem is no one on the outside really knows exactly how the events took place. I would guess that even those in the inner circle would probably have different accounts of the story. We on the outside can only try to connect the few dots that those with agendas decided to make public. Anyway, it's all water under the bridge. The only benefit to looking back is to learn and not repeat mistakes, and that is something we onlookers have zero power over. |
|
|
|
Post by hitnrun24 on May 3, 2024 16:00:29 GMT -8
They tried to sign Butler so to give Kawhi a little credit he didn't demand that it had to be George. But he wanted someone of that status. He tried getting Butler or Durant to come join him. Durant wanted to play with Kyrie and Butler wanted to go live in Miami. Once those guys signed, the Clippers started canvassing around the league to see if any other star players were available. OKC sensed desperation and tried to get as much out of it as possible. From the retelling of it from Doc it sounded more like they didn't know if Kawhi would've signed anyway, but they didn't want to risk it. Kawhi wanted someone and once he saw the Clippers move he was in. Doc said he thought Kawhi was leaning towards signing the Clippers either way, but you couldn't know for sure. They told him Shai was gonna be really good and he asked how long that was gonna take. You can understand that Kawhi ddin't want to waste a year or two waiting for the Clippers to get someone, but I think the hindsight is trying to get him to buy in that they would get someone and wouldn't have to mortgage the future which would also hurt him if they could do it later in the summer or mid season. I was not aware of this, and the questions I am about to ask are not questioning the validity of what you are saying, but what I don't understand is, if all Kawhi wanted was to play with someone else of that stature, why didn't he just go join Lebron with the Lakers? And why would Butler want to live in Miami 12 months a year so badly that he would prefer playing there without a co-star rather than playing with Kawhi in Los Angeles and still live in Miami 6 months a year if he loves it so much. When Butler left Minnesota, he was vigorously and loudly complaining about the lack of desire to win. He made it clear that winning was most important to him. He didn't sound to me like someone who would give up a better chance to win for the pleasure of living in a specific city. The problem is no one on the outside really knows exactly how the events took place. I would guess that even those in the inner circle would probably have different accounts of the story. We on the outside can only try to connect the few dots that those with agendas decided to make public. Anyway, it's all water under the bridge. The only benefit to looking back is to learn and not repeat mistakes, and that is something we onlookers have zero power over. Yeah understood and no one has every detail on this, but from what I remember Butler also liked Miami's infrastructure.. team, young talent, coaches, GM, owner. I worded it to make it seem like he would just go there no matter the team set up, but that was definitely a part of it even though it wasn't as strong as a perceived situation as joining Kawhi in LA. He still felt like they could build a strong enough team around him. Found this article that talks about him being on the list of players Kawhi was looking to play with. So it may have just been something like that. www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/jimmy-butler-had-meetings-with-clippers-and-lakers From Kawhi's perspective I guess worst case scenario is no one on his list becomes available and he wastes a year on a team not quite good enough. And what, Shai regresses and his trade value goes down? It has happened before where no stars become available, but that would be unusual. As for why Kawhi didn't join Lebron, this is a bit of speculation. Some ppl think this is why the Clippers made the trade bc they feared it as a very real possibility. Some think he was never going there, but also wanted to make sure the Clippers felt some sort of pressure to get him a co-star. And that he never would've joined Lebron as he viewed him as a rival. |
|
|
|
Post by nuraman00 on May 3, 2024 16:24:49 GMT -8
As for why Kawhi didn't join Lebron, this is a bit of speculation. Some ppl think this is why the Clippers made the trade bc they feared it as a very real possibility. Some think he was never going there, but also wanted to make sure the Clippers felt some sort of pressure to get him a co-star. And that he never would've joined Lebron as he viewed him as a rival. Kawhi wanted his own team.
If he couldn't get another costar, he would have gone back to Toronto, where he had his own team. And other All-Stars. Lowry was an All-Star with Kawhi.
Siakam would become one the following year after Leonard left. It's speculation as to whether Siakam would have been an All-Star in 2019-2020 with Leonard.
But I'm thinking that if Toronto won 73.6% of their games that year without Kawhi on the team that season, then Toronto either would have gotten 3 All-Stars, or two but with Siakam that year instead of Lowry.
Not only that, but Kawhi controlled Toronto. They did whatever he asked.
On the Lakers, Kawhi would not have had that control. LeBron would have.
Not everyone will agree with this, but even in the days before he signed with the Clippers, I thought Toronto was very appealing for these reasons.
As for Miami, Butler wants a lot of things. One thing he also got in Miami, was control.
Some players want to win, but they want control of how they win.
|
|
|
|
Post by nuraman00 on May 3, 2024 17:17:45 GMT -8
This was just a repeat of game 6 against Phoenix in 2021, where they lost by 27 at home.
Not that the home thing matters as much, as the losing by a lot does.
|
|
|
|
Post by nuraman00 on May 3, 2024 17:23:19 GMT -8
I don't see this as a catastrophe, when the Clippers in the past have had these losses before.
They've lost by blowouts several times.
They are one of the worst home playoffs teams all time.
They've almost always lost an early series home game (one of the first two).
They've had several blowout losses at home before.
It's just normal.
And why I kind of expect them to lose a few at home, but also win a few road ones. They're a decent road playoffs team.
|
|
|
|
Post by clipzfan611 on May 3, 2024 20:13:44 GMT -8
Kawhi's knees are damaged goods, there's no good way to handle it. Unfortunately, it looks like it was almost definitively a move that didn't work out. 100% of GM's would've done it after he came off the 2019 championship and we would've been ok with him being available in the postseason even half the time, but 4 straight postseasons of missing most of the games is some bad luck on top of it too. Will this team ever have a healthy run other than the bubble when Doc torpedoed it by having a Harrell blindspot? Having SGA and those picks in hindsight and we'd have a more reliable winner. I'm sure Ballmer invests a lot in the doctors, but gotta be hard for him to accept that no one is able to figure out this inflammation We lost in the bubble for many reasons, it wasn't just Harrell. Check Kawhi's shooting percentage in the games we lost. It was bad. PG was awful. Many members of the team collapsed.
Nah it really was as simple as Doc and his moronic subs. Couldve overcame everything else. Kawhi failed us and fucked the future of our franchise on top of it. We had to do it but Kawhi was wrong like a few of us said from the beginning.
|
|
|
|
Post by hitnrun24 on May 3, 2024 21:36:30 GMT -8
We lost in the bubble for many reasons, it wasn't just Harrell. Check Kawhi's shooting percentage in the games we lost. It was bad. PG was awful. Many members of the team collapsed.
Nah it really was as simple as Doc and his moronic subs. Couldve overcame everything else. Kawhi failed us and fucked the future of our franchise on top of it. We had to do it but Kawhi was wrong like a few of us said from the beginning.
A small part of the problem was not having a good back up C, but Doc also foolishly tried to put a back up PF on the best player in the league. I think he somehow underestimated Jokic. Denver was setting their rotations to exploit Doc every time he'd put Harrell in. Every time that happened Denver went on a huge run. Kawhi had a horrible game 7, but other than that he was good enough against a team with a lot of guys who were good options to defend him. |
|
