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Post by clippers1121 on May 2, 2019 8:11:06 GMT -8
Movies that can make people cry or at least feel something make a lot more money than movies that don't. There is nothing wrong with caring about fictional characters. It goes all the way back to Romeo and Juliet. They were fictional characters that people cried over. So this isn't something abnormal or culturally wrong. And it isn't something new. You should feel happy for the people who do feel something for the characters. Because that means they have the ability to feel empathy.
And what is the difference between Achilles and Superman. Both of them were invincible in battles. Both of them had one weakness. Achilles was his heel and Superman's was kryptonite. My point was that superheroes have been around a long time and are nothing new in our culture.
And sure we have lost a lot of our culture in movie making because we have to pander to the Chinese to get big movies made now. I will concede that point. But there are still a lot of good small movies being made that are character driven and about the American experience. It is ironic that our leadership is all about Xenophobia while our culture is becoming all about including all the worlds citizens in its plots and story telling. It used to be a big international production was a movie like "A Bridge Too Far". Now a big international production is "Avengers: Infinity War or Endgame". It is questionable whether that is better or worse culturally. It is not good for me personally but it is what it is and there are plenty of bigger fish to fry.
And subscription TV has made up for a lot of what we have lost at the theatres. That is more of a niche audience that does not have to pander to the Chinese and they are not overtly trying to get the biggest audience possible. Russian Dolls on Netflix I would recommend. And we did get that big documentary by Ken Burns on the Vietnam War last year. That was excellent.
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Post by mistwell on May 2, 2019 8:50:05 GMT -8
I am big into mythology and the power and influence it has on our society. I am with you clippers1121. There isn't a lot of meaningful difference between the myths of the ancient Greeks with heroes like Achilles and the modern zeitgeist surrounding superheroes like Superman. There are articles out there on that comparison. Though most people compare Superman to Zeus   |
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Post by nuraman00 on May 2, 2019 9:46:07 GMT -8
Movies that can make people cry or at least feel something make a lot more money than movies that don't. There is nothing wrong with caring about fictional characters. It goes all the way back to Romeo and Juliet. They were fictional characters that people cried over. So this isn't something abnormal or culturally wrong. And it isn't something new. You should feel happy for the people who do feel something for the characters. Because that means they have the ability to feel empathy. And what is the difference between Achilles and Superman. Both of them were invincible in battles. Both of them had one weakness. Achilles was his heel and Superman's was kryptonite. My point was that superheroes have been around a long time and are nothing new in our culture. And sure we have lost a lot of our culture in movie making because we have to pander to the Chinese to get big movies made now. I will concede that point. But there are still a lot of good small movies being made that are character driven and about the American experience. It is ironic that our leadership is all about Xenophobia while our culture is becoming all about including all the worlds citizens in its plots and story telling. It used to be a big international production was a movie like "A Bridge Too Far". Now a big international production is "Avengers: Infinity War or Endgame". It is questionable whether that is better or worse culturally. It is not good for me personally but it is what it is and there are plenty of bigger fish to fry. And subscription TV has made up for a lot of what we have lost at the theatres. That is more of a niche audience that does not have to pander to the Chinese and they are not overtly trying to get the biggest audience possible. Russian Dolls on Netflix I would recommend. And we did get that big documentary by Ken Burns on the Vietnam War last year. That was excellent. In what ways, or how is this pandering done? |
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Post by mistwell on May 2, 2019 10:03:59 GMT -8
I don't agree with him that we "pander" but there is a bit of playing to the international crowd. Hollywood no longer uses Chinese people as "the villain" and that's been made explicit by some producers. Some studios have at times played more to tropes which are historically more popular in some other cultures, and I think that may have started (or at least increased) with Pacific Rim. Zootopia added a Panda character specifically for international audiences. Marvel movies switched the cell phones used by various characters (like Iron Man and Captain America) to a Vivo phone, and that apparently was intentionally aimed at international audiences. And then the Warcraft film was definitely directly targeted at Chinese moviegoers, with the premiere (which was intentional during the Dragon Boat Festival weekend to increase box office) and publicity tour aimed mostly at China. That's why Warcraft made only $47.2 million domestically but $433 million internationally with more than half of that, $220.8 million, from China. Now You See Me, and it's sequel, were both targeted to China (and made the bulk of its box office there). So was Independence Day: Resurgence. So yes, Hollywood has China and most of Asia in mind when making movies these days. I wouldn't use the term "pandering" but it's a meaningful issue. |
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Post by clippers1121 on May 2, 2019 11:13:50 GMT -8
We pander to the Chinese and international markets because up to 65% of the ticket sales are coming from foreign markets. That is why Dwayne Johnson (The Rock) is in so many big movies like Rampage, Skyscraper, Jumanji, Fast and the Furious 5,6,7,8, 9. He sells a lot of tickets in China just because he is in the movie. Not sure Rampage and Skyscraper even get made without him. And most of their ticket sales were foreign because U.S. audiences sure did not go for these movies in large numbers. That movie "The Martian" even went so far as to have the U.S. asking China for help in rescuing their astronaut. The whole business now is getting those foreign dollars.
Skyscraper - US and Canada BO - 68 million. China BO - 98 million. Now which audience do you think they had in mind when they made this movie.
Rampage - US and Canada - 101 million. China - 156 million. Result - Dwayne Johnson the biggest and highest paid star in the world.
And I happened to see these two movies. Long on spectacle. Short on story and acting. Extremely low quality movies for U.S. audiences. No China these things do not get made.
The Martian. Domestic gross 228 million. Foreign gross - 402 million. So yes these movies are meant to sell in foreign countries. Before movies were made primarily for U.S. audiences.
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Post by mistwell on May 2, 2019 12:42:10 GMT -8
Keep in mind US studios do keep a larger percentage of box office from domestic sales. International sales get a larger percentage eaten up by those nations before it reaches the studio here.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 13:01:47 GMT -8
Keep in mind US studios do keep a larger percentage of box office from domestic sales. International sales get a larger percentage eaten up by those nations before it reaches the studio here. A discussion of the business of movies? You guys are from LA. I kind of agree that foreign markets are driving production decisions given that US movie ticket sales peaked in 2002 (according to Box Office Mojo):  Looking at the names of the biggest grossing movies overseas, it is mostly superheros and cartoons--just like here. A name I haven't heard is The Wandering Earth. It is a Chinese movie about the Sun dying out and we put thrusters on the Earth to search for a new star. It has grossed $700 million this year. |
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Post by clippers1121 on May 2, 2019 14:28:47 GMT -8
Actually, I thought "Spotlight" was a very fine picture. It even won the academy award for best picture. It made 45 million domestic and 53 million foreign. No China money as it did not play there. "Birdman" another best picture winner. 42 million domestic and 60 million foreign. "Captain Marvel" a so-so superhero movie released this year. 416 million domestic and almost 700 million foreign. So it is pretty obvious why our culture in this country is going to hell.
And yes I agree with Glanton that there are far too many kids movies being made and far too few adult movies being made. And Corkscrew is right in saying the big epic movies of the past have been supplanted by a constant junk food diet of crappy and derivative action movies frequently featuring superheroes or guys like the Rock who look like superheroes. Instead of getting the next "Chinatown" we get "Fast and Furious Part Nine". But it is obviously all market driven. Those who buy the tickets decide what is on the menu. And if you don't like Chinese food you are shit out of luck.
But like I said. It is offset by better television programming. At least somewhat. I miss the epic high budget dramas. It can still be a drama it just has to have a superhero as the dramatic lead. Like "The Dark Knight". Don't get me wrong. I love a lot of these movies. But I am afraid that making another movie like "Lawrence of Arabia" would be a bridge too far for these studios to go to in this day. Lionsgate is going bankrupt just because they missed on the new "Hellboy" movie. So these guys have to hit home runs with the various domestic and foreign markets or they are out. They spend more on marketing than they do producing the movie in most cases. So yes I guess you can cry for our lost culture. Where is Martin Scorsese, Stanley Kubrick, David Lean, and Francis Ford Coppola when we need them the most.
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Post by corkscrew on May 2, 2019 14:47:17 GMT -8
The movie business has alway been international, pretty much since the birth of the industry, it has always been one of the major USA exports, if not the biggest. Nothing new about that. So this explanation of why a certain kind of movie is being produced as opposed to another kind doesn't hold water.
If the studios only wanted to make movies that sell tickets in China, Sony wouldn't have bothered to create Sony Classics and Fox wouldn't have bothered to create Fox Searchlight and Disney wouldn't have bought Miramax.
Hollywood produces what people will pay money to see. They used to pay money to see a certain kind of movie and now they only pay money to see another kind. And that's a reflection of the culture, and no argumentative gymnastics can make a rational case otherwise.
And BTW, I might add -- and this is for another discussion all together -- world culture has been driven by American culture since at least the end of WWII, from blue jeans to McDonald to Rock 'n Roll to Hollywood, it's been America that has been followed and imitated. We are probably beginning to see the end of that now.
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Post by trapp76 on May 2, 2019 18:39:19 GMT -8
Endgame was fucking awesome.
GOT was fucking awesome.
Both were HIGHLY entertaining. What an epic weekend.
#analysis
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Post by tullabye on May 5, 2019 21:01:47 GMT -8
Student debt, income inequality, poor leadership in Washington, gun ownership out of control, increasing homelessness and poverty, are all much bigger problems than what movies are being produced in Hollywood. We make movies to sell to China, Japan, and South Korea now. They are not even made for United States audiences in large part. It is a business. It doesn't reflect our culture. Escapist entertainment has been around since the Iliad and the Odyssey. That was written by Homer in 750 BC. What is the difference between Achilles and Captain America. Or Hector and Iron Man. Superman started in 1927. Batman shortly after. So comic book characters dominate movies now because people want to see heroes doing heroic things. It has always been that way(Star Trek just turned 50). TV has taken over drama with better shows than have ever been made in television history. Like Billions, Succession, GoT, etc... The product is there if people want it. Plus we had some excellent movies made last year like Roma, Green Book, that certainly were not hero based escapism. So I would suggest that there is nothing wrong with our culture right now. In fact the television programs available now are of much higher quality than shows of the past on network TV have been. So you guys don't like pandering to the Chinese market with our expensive super hero movies. Well guess what. Business is business and money is money. And that is a good way to get some of it from them. As a side benefit audiences in the U.S. enjoy these types of movies too. And I am one of them. But I do wish we got the Lawrence of Arabia, Godfather 1 and 2, and more of these types of movies instead. It is not good seeing sequel after sequel of the same rehashed plot and characters just so our studios can make money. Don't cry for our culture. It isn't that bad. Cry for our dying planet. Global warming is killing us. And our president just ordered oil prices lowered so we can all consume even more fossil fuels. That is what I cry about. OMG. Hopefully this will cheer you up. So smart.https://youtu.be/BB0aFPXr4n4 youtu.be/BB0aFPXr4n4 |
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Post by mistwell on May 6, 2019 18:47:59 GMT -8
Bill Hader's 'Barry' makes me larf. A bit overboard with all the vulgarities, but it's a good show if you like dark dry humour. Leonard "where's my stapler" from Office Space is in it. Henry Winkler. GoT was insane last night. Great direction, script, special effects. A first class experience. Oh man I second Barry. I love that show! |
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Post by clippers1121 on May 7, 2019 7:49:54 GMT -8
Barry is wrestling with a Mexican guy he is about to kill. The guy keeps yelling "no tienes que hacer esto". Barry finally manages to kill the guy. Then he asks his manager what does "no tienes que hacer esto" mean? And his manager tells him it means "you don't have to do this".
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 9:13:43 GMT -8
In other news, the Big Bang Theory finale is also this week. That will probably end with the gang sitting around the coffee table eating Chinese food like they always do.
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Post by nuraman00 on May 13, 2019 18:03:14 GMT -8
Do you mind if I move the Game Of Thread posts into its own thread? Just because it's something a show I haven't seen, and if I ever do see it, I don't want spoilers.
There was a separate thread about it a few weeks ago.
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