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Post by nuraman00 on Feb 6, 2019 13:46:39 GMT -8
On the other hand, Golden State signed someone like a Harris or Walker when they signed David Lee in 2010. But they had Curry under contract, would eventually draft Thompson and Green, and would trade for Bogut.
It's not like they signed a superstar when they signed Lee either, and they were starting from scratch.
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Post by dyce on Feb 6, 2019 13:47:54 GMT -8
AD did not list Boston as a team he would resign with. I don't see them offering a godfather offer for a guy that doesn't want to be there.
I feel our offer can be as good or better than the Lakers offer. SGA vs Ingram, I feel like they are equal talents. SGA looks much better as a rookie than Ingram did. Kuzma vs Shamet, both these guys have outplayed their draft positions. Really, both should have been late lottery guys. Kuzma is more established, but Shamet is two years younger. Ball vs Jerome, Jerome hasn't done anything in this league so far but Ball? I have no clue what Ball's value is. Dude is shooting 42% from the free throw line and brings all kinds of baggage with his dad. His dad has basically already requested a trade out of New Orleans.
So we could probably throw in Harrell too and we can offer a better pick package than the Lakers can. I'd say our offer isn't terrible.
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Post by mistwell on Feb 6, 2019 13:52:45 GMT -8
Dyce, I get the argument. But I'm confused. Would we really want Jimmy Butler over Tobias? I wouldn't. He's older, he's a cancer and I don't think he's a better player. Is AD being traded here for these draft picks? Why would NO do that instead of for what the Lakers are offering or the Celtics will offer? What's so great about a future late round first pick and a don't know future future future first round pick that likely won't be a top 8 pick, and some 2nd rounders? I just don't see what the back slapping is all about. To clarify, we just damaged the Celtics offer, and Boston isn't apparently a top destination for AD to sign. It was thought the Boston offer be four picks. By doing this trade Clippers now keep their pick, so that's one down. The likelihood that the Celtics get that Memphis pick are dwindling by the day, especially if the Grizzlies unload veterans Garrett Temple, Mike Conley and Marc Gasol. By doing this trade, Clippers also probably just gave the Kings a playoffs spot - which harms a third pick of Bostons. So now they only have two picks to offer rather than four, and one of those picks is worth less than it was before...which is less than our current offer or the Lakers current offer. Once we took ourselves out of the playoffs, Boston's offer suddenly isn't as good. So it's really down to the Lakers vs Clippers. You're big on the Lakers rookies, but most of the league isn't. Ball apparently doesn't even want to play in New Orleans, is seen in a poor light, and is no longer viewed as an attractive piece for New Orleans. So how does Kuzma and Ingram compare to SGA, Robinson, and Shamet? How does FOUR first round picks (two Clippers picks, one Miami pick, and one 76ers pick) compare to TWO Lakers picks (that's what they offered), particularly given Lakers pick either the same or worse than a Clippers pick now if Clippers miss the playoffs? The Clippers likely now have the best offer, though they may need to wait to the offseason to do that deal (as they don't technically keep their own pick until they miss the playoffs). |
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Post by dyce on Feb 6, 2019 13:53:20 GMT -8
On the Miami pick. 2021 is the year the league said could end the 1 and done rule. So it's expected to be a loaded draft with top players from two high school classes. It's a good year to have an unprotected pick.
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Post by gilp5 on Feb 6, 2019 13:57:38 GMT -8
Dyce, I get the argument. But I'm confused. Would we really want Jimmy Butler over Tobias? I wouldn't. He's older, he's a cancer and I don't think he's a better player. Is AD being traded here for these draft picks? Why would NO do that instead of for what the Lakers are offering or the Celtics will offer? What's so great about a future late round first pick and a don't know future future future first round pick that likely won't be a top 8 pick, and some 2nd rounders? I just don't see what the back slapping is all about. To clarify, we just damaged the Celtics offer, and Boston isn't apparently a top destination for AD to sign. It was thought the Boston offer be four picks. By doing this trade Clippers now keep their pick, so that's one down. By doing this trade, Clippers also probably just gave the Kings a playoffs spot - which kills a second pick of Bostons. So now they only have two picks to offer rather than four...which is less than our current offer or the Lakers current offer. Once we took ourselves out of the playoffs, Boston's offer suddenly isn't as good. So it's really down to the Lakers vs Clippers. You're big on the Lakers rookies, but most of the league isn't. Ball apparently doesn't even want to play in New Orleans, is seen in a poor light, and is no longer viewed as an attractive piece for New Orleans. So how does Kuzma and Ingram compare to SGA, Robinson, and Shamet? How does FOUR first round picks (two Clippers picks, one Miami pick, and one 76ers pick) compare to TWO Lakers picks (that's what they offered), particularly given Lakers pick either the same or worse than a Clippers pick now if Clippers miss the playoffs? The Clippers likely now have the best offer, though they may need to wait to the offseason to do that deal (as they don't technically keep their own pick until they miss the playoffs). Plus the Lakers players are going to be up for expensive extensions sooner than the Clippers players. |
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Post by dyce on Feb 6, 2019 14:10:51 GMT -8
Plus there is also the factor of teams simply not wanting to make trades with the Lakers. Spurs would rather have a vet like DeRozen than to deal Kawhi for these same Laker prospects.
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Post by nuraman00 on Feb 6, 2019 14:16:56 GMT -8
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Post by mistwell on Feb 6, 2019 14:27:11 GMT -8
Here are our current trade assets:
2019 second-round pick from Cleveland, Houston, Orlando or Portland (most likely Portland);
Philly's 2020 first-round pick (lottery protection);
Miami's 2021 first-round pick (unprotected);
Detroit's 2021 second-round pick;
Detroit's 2023 second-round pick;
2019 Clippers first-round pick if Clippers in lottery (Owed to Boston but lottery protection in 2019 and 2020; turns into 2022 second if not conveyed);
$9.8 million trade exception.
Salary Matching Assets:
Patrick Beverley (expiring at $5 million);
Danilo Gallinari (one year, $22.6 million);
Montrezl Harrell (one year, $6 million);
Mike Muscala (expiring at $5 million; cannot be traded with another player);
SGA;
Jerome Robinson;
Landry Shamet (cannot be traded with another player);
Sindarius Thornwell (non-guaranteed salary for 2019-20);
Tyrone Wallace (non-guaranteed salary for 2019-20; implicit no-trade clause);
Lou Williams (two years, $16 million; $1.5 million guarantee for 2020-21)
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Post by clipanswerman on Feb 6, 2019 14:29:26 GMT -8
Gilp, The first scenario is crazy i.e. we get our first round draft pick because we'll be bad (true, there are other ways an organization can tank even with their players) and again, I don't think the 14th pick is such a big deal and oh by the way, this knocks out such and such a team's pick and creates such and such to move up 5 picks or whatever convoluted scenario you describe. And yes, I think any GM in the league would rather have Lonzo, Ingram and Kuzma then SGA, Robinson and Shamet and some late picks. Not even close.
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Post by nuraman00 on Feb 6, 2019 14:32:20 GMT -8
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Post by nuraman00 on Feb 6, 2019 14:38:04 GMT -8
Waiting for clipsahoy , gpack17 , hitnrun24 , hooch20 , htownfan , jewelthough , kandi34 , mountcyanide , prince2250 , @rhy1244 , rostick , samiam19 , vfhs , vicrattlehead, wwtcbwsr 's thoughts. |
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Post by mistwell on Feb 6, 2019 14:42:43 GMT -8
Gilp, The first scenario is crazy i.e. we get our first round draft pick because we'll be bad (true, there are other ways an organization can tank even with their players) and again, I don't think the 14th pick is such a big deal and oh by the way, this knocks out such and such a team's pick and creates such and such to move up 5 picks or whatever convoluted scenario you describe. And yes, I think any GM in the league would rather have Lonzo, Ingram and Kuzma then SGA, Robinson and Shamet and some late picks. Not even close. It's not convoluted. Read any report today on Boston's offer for AD. They went from four picks to two, and one of those two is now worth less than it was before. Boston's offer is no longer the top offer in all likelihood. So the question is trade for the Lakers young guys and picks, or trade for the Clippers young guys and picks. Clippers comes with more and better picks but worse young players, and Lakers comes with better young players but worse and fewer picks. You thinking that's a slam dunk? OK, that's your opinion. I don't agree. Add to that the general distaste with dealing with the Lakers around the league, and the slightly higher cost of the Lakers young players and sooner cost to re-sign those players, and the issues surrounding Ball (his dad just slammed the Pelicans by the way and said his son wants to go to the Suns) and I think the Clippers offer is as good or better than the Lakers offer. But we shall see. So far, the Clippers have not even expressed interest in AD so it could be a moot point. Jerry West may not even want AD as much as the Lakers want him. |
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Post by mistwell on Feb 6, 2019 14:48:30 GMT -8
Here, from NBC, who lists Boston as one of the losers of the Harris trade:
Boston Celtics
Again, the ripple effects of this deal go far and wide. The Celtics came into the season hoping they’d have four first-round picks in their coffers for the 2019 draft. The outlook looked great to start the season. They’d receive the Memphis Grizzlies’ first-round pick as long as it didn’t fall in the first eight picks. They’d get the Sacramento Kings’ first-rounder (top-one protected) and the Clippers’ first-rounder if L.A. made the playoffs.
Those dreams are crumbling as we speak. By trading their best player in Harris, the Clippers seem destined to tank for that pick and swipe it away from the Celtics -- either to add to their rebuild or for trade value (Hello, Pelicans?). Seven of the Clippers’ 27 remaining games are against playoff hopefuls Utah, Minnesota, Sacramento and the Lakers. Worse yet, the Celtics have yet to play any of their two games against the Clippers, who are now incentivized to lose those games and keep the pick in L.A.
Remember, every game that the Kings win going forward dents the Celtics’ hopes of landing a lottery pick in Sacramento’s place. The likelihood that the Celtics get that Memphis pick are dwindling by the day, especially if the Grizzlies unload veterans Garrett Temple, Mike Conley and Marc Gasol.
The good news for the Celtics is that these picks will roll over to next season if they’re not conveyed this season. Should the Clippers miss the playoffs, the pick becomes a 2020 first-rounder (lottery protected). If the Clippers strike out on the playoffs again in 2019-20, the pick becomes a 2022 second-rounder. The Memphis pick becomes top-six protected for 2020 and if not conveyed, it turns into a fully unprotected first-rounder in 2021. We’ll see if the Grizzlies will be good by then.
There was a time that the Celtics were looking at having four first-rounders in the upcoming draft, including a top-five pick from Sacramento. Now, they might have only two, reduced to the back half of the draft.
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Post by nuraman00 on Feb 6, 2019 15:21:21 GMT -8
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Post by trapp76 on Feb 6, 2019 15:32:32 GMT -8
On the Miami pick. 2021 is the year the league said could end the 1 and done rule. So it's expected to be a loaded draft with top players from two high school classes. It's a good year to have an unprotected pick. Very interesting, good point. In my opinion, SGA is going to end up being better than any of the middling young players the Lakers have when all is said and done and while the Miami pick could end up in the 20s or the teens, it could also end up being the #1 pick. You don't get that chance with any of the Laker picks, especially if you are giving them AD in his prime to pair with Lebron. If you're the Pelicans, you don't want any picks from the team you are trading AD to, you want picks that belong to other teams, otherwise you're damaging your own pick (assuming it's a future pick and not already slotted). The Lakers don't own any picks that belong to other teams, they only own their own picks, which would all be very low value if they are getting AD. So not only do the Clippers own the best young player between the two packages (SGA), they also own BY FAR the best draft pick asset (the MIA pick) and the best NBA ready established players that they can send back (Gallo/Lou), while the Lakers can only offer their own low value picks and garbage heap players like Lance and Beasley. They have to sell the Pelicans on the possibility that Ingram/Ball/Kuzma is so much better than SGA/Robinson/Harrell that it can make up the difference between the pick values and vet player values. Could the Pelicans buy that? Sure they could, but you could make a decent argument either way I think. So, here are your two packages side by side (other smaller pieces could be included, but this would be the main core of the packages): Clippers: SGA (20) (cost controlled 3 more seasons and then RFA) Robinson (21) (cost controlled 3 more seasons and then RFA) Harrell (25) (cost controlled 1 more season and then UFA) MIA Pick Unprotected (Could be as high as the number 1 pick) Gallo Lakers: Ingram (21) (cost controlled 1 more season and then RFA) Ball (21) (and his dad) (cost controlled 2 more seasons and then RFA) Kuzma (23) (cost controlled 2 more seasons and then RFA) LAL Pick (guaranteed not to be a high pick and ZERO chance to even be a lottery pick) Lance/Beasley |
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