|
Post by gilp5 on Feb 9, 2024 11:59:44 GMT -8
Be careful, Mistwell thinks you are a hater now. No, he's not a hater. He'd discuss the matter with me rationally because he doesn't have a deep seated bias behind his opinion. You are out of your mind. I have no bias. Calling people names is childish and only shows you cannot back up your positions with facts or data. I thought you were more mature than that. I said PG is worth around 100m/3 years and that the Clippers will be stuck with an albatross contract if they pay him 150m because that's way over his value. I listed off other players making 30m a year to back up my point. I have not seen anything to show otherwise. You have not cited any data but resorted to name calling instead. Could another team offer him a max contract? Sure anything is possible, but they will also be stuck with an albatross. Philly overpaid Tobias in exactly the same way. Maybe they'll do it again.
|
|
|
Post by corkscrew on Feb 9, 2024 12:35:24 GMT -8
I don’t have a dog in this fight, nor do I want one. I would just like to point out that the value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it, regardless of whether or not it is wise to do so.
As an example, I give you the price of Bitcoin today: $47,640.90. What does Bitcoin do? Nothing. But it’s worth $47K because people are willing to trade it at that price.
|
|
|
Post by hitnrun24 on Feb 9, 2024 13:20:06 GMT -8
I don’t have a dog in this fight, nor do I want one. I would just like to point out that the value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it, regardless of whether or not it is wise to do so. As an example, I give you the price of Bitcoin today: $47,640.90. What does Bitcoin do? Nothing. But it’s worth $47K because people are willing to trade it at that price. Me either and PG frustrates me as much as a lot of Clippers fans, he's got major flaws and is super inconsistent throughout seasons. But these contracts don't exist in a vacuum. You can't just say well this guy, who happens to be on his first extension, which is a lower than a veteran extension is only making this much so I'd rather just have that guy. Or a guy who got his contract 2-3 years ago only makes this much even though if he were up for a contract now, he'd be getting a big raise. I think Mistwell has brought up this point a bunch, but there's just more max slots than players deserving of it so if your criteria is top 20 players when there's 50-60 max's being handed out then a lot of guys' deals are going to look like overpays. So in the end if he's overpaid, yet still useful, does it really matter as long as we are keeping our other core pieces?
|
|
|
Post by tullabye on Feb 9, 2024 14:11:11 GMT -8
Just because someone might be willing to pay a price for something doesn’t mean that it can’t be overvalued. A team has to choose and manage wisely when doling out the allotted money it has to work with. There are plenty of bad decisions made when investing so it’s not that cut and dried. I’m sure PG could get a team or two to cough up a max extension but that doesn’t mean that the eligible teams who choose not to are wrong. They may very well be right and I think all gilp is saying is that he feels it would be a mistake and doesn’t want the Clips to be the ones left holding the bag.
|
|
|
Post by mistwell on Feb 9, 2024 14:12:38 GMT -8
No, he's not a hater. He'd discuss the matter with me rationally because he doesn't have a deep seated bias behind his opinion. You are out of your mind. I have no bias. Calling people names is childish and only shows you cannot back up your positions with facts or data. I thought you were more mature than that. What name do you think I have called you?
|
|
|
Post by mistwell on Feb 9, 2024 14:21:15 GMT -8
Just because someone might be willing to pay a price for something doesn’t mean that it can’t be overvalued. A team has to choose and manage wisely when doling out the allotted money it has to work with. There are plenty of bad decisions made when investing so it’s not that cut and dried. I’m sure PG could get a team or two to cough up a max extension but that doesn’t mean that the eligible teams who choose not to are wrong. They may very well be right and I think all gilp is saying is that he feels it would be a mistake and doesn’t want the Clips to be the ones left holding the bag. Being overvalued is a different issue than saying what their market value is. The complication for the Clippers is we cannot replace PG with a player as good as he is if he walks for nothing due to our cap situation. We save his salary of course but as that doesn't put us below the cap (after we deal with Harden) we can't just pick someone up as good as he is for the MLE. So his value to the Clippers is tied to that issue. It's not what other players make necessarily, it's what he means to the team relative to what a replacement player would bring to the team. That is, unless we were planning to do a full reset this year which were not given we just signed Kawhi and didn't trade PG at the deadline. I think there is no question another team would in fact pay PG more than $30M a year. Which is why I say his market value is higher than $30M. It truly doesn't matter if you can find players you personally think are ask good as PG making $30M or less. Market value is driven by league perception and what teams are willing to pay.
|
|
|
Post by jglanton on Feb 9, 2024 14:55:11 GMT -8
I give you the price of Bitcoin today: $47,640.90. excuse me for awhile, I'm heading over the Porsche configurator
|
|
|
Post by clipanswerman on Feb 9, 2024 15:02:34 GMT -8
We can do a sign and trade to a team over the cap or under the cap that wants to get him and considers him an upgrade over a lower priced player on their team. This stuff is getting more and more complicated but I think....
Depending on the player, that's certainly something to consider. In that scenario his 'market value' is in fact high, but his actual worth will, I have no doubt, be far less. And if the Clippers front office is smart - and they are - they'll do something like that. An example, would in fact, be Brooklyn and Mikal Bridges. Next year Brooklyn is $13m below the cap. If they trade Bridges ($23m next season) and say another $15m in several lower priced no name players who combined make $15m (Noah Clowney, Dariq whitehaead, La'ron sharpe who each have just next year on their contracts) or say Bridges and Dorian Finney-Smith ($14m next season), then everything is achieved.
PG gets his high market value salary of say $38m per year at ages 34, 35 and 36. The Clips get Mikal Bridges undervalued at $23m per for his prime years, and Brooklyn fans - except for the childish fans who can't face reality if someone on their taem is overrated - are eventually shocked at how much PG is actually worth. Win for PG. Win for Bridges. Win for the Clippers. Loss for Brooklyn and their fans. Big loss for whoever their Mistwell is too. In other words - win all-around!
Which is why, at the end of the day, you don't want to overpay someone in that price range. Because you can do better.
|
|
|
Post by gilp5 on Feb 9, 2024 15:08:46 GMT -8
Just because someone might be willing to pay a price for something doesn’t mean that it can’t be overvalued. A team has to choose and manage wisely when doling out the allotted money it has to work with. There are plenty of bad decisions made when investing so it’s not that cut and dried. I’m sure PG could get a team or two to cough up a max extension but that doesn’t mean that the eligible teams who choose not to are wrong. They may very well be right and I think all gilp is saying is that he feels it would be a mistake and doesn’t want the Clips to be the ones left holding the bag. Yes this is it. I am not saying that one team won't pay him something crazy this offseason. I am saying that we will be stuck with a $50m/multi-year contract because it will become apparent over time that he is not worth $50m. That does not make me a "hater." If they can sign him to $30m I think the Clippers will retain some versatility in case it does not work out.
|
|
|
Post by dane on Feb 9, 2024 16:52:10 GMT -8
No, he's not a hater. He'd discuss the matter with me rationally because he doesn't have a deep seated bias behind his opinion. You are out of your mind. I have no bias. Calling people names is childish and only shows you cannot back up your positions with facts or data. I thought you were more mature than that. I said PG is worth around 100m/3 years and that the Clippers will be stuck with an albatross contract if they pay him 150m because that's way over his value. I listed off other players making 30m a year to back up my point. I have not seen anything to show otherwise. You have not cited any data but resorted to name calling instead. Could another team offer him a max contract? Sure anything is possible, but they will also be stuck with an albatross. Philly overpaid Tobias in exactly the same way. Maybe they'll do it again. Dude. Calm down! He just said you were NOT biased. He just said you two COULD discuss things rationally. I disagree with MW all the time, but even in the bad old feuding days, calling other posters names is just not his thing. Relax. (well, except in the case of one poster "j..." and another one who feels that game threads that the rest of us post on are too vulgar for his eminence, so he has to create his own. ... But other than that ... )
|
|
|
Post by hitnrun24 on Feb 9, 2024 19:01:58 GMT -8
Just because someone might be willing to pay a price for something doesn’t mean that it can’t be overvalued. A team has to choose and manage wisely when doling out the allotted money it has to work with. There are plenty of bad decisions made when investing so it’s not that cut and dried. I’m sure PG could get a team or two to cough up a max extension but that doesn’t mean that the eligible teams who choose not to are wrong. They may very well be right and I think all gilp is saying is that he feels it would be a mistake and doesn’t want the Clips to be the ones left holding the bag. Yes this is it. I am not saying that one team won't pay him something crazy this offseason. I am saying that we will be stuck with a $50m/multi-year contract because it will become apparent over time that he is not worth $50m. That does not make me a "hater." If they can sign him to $30m I think the Clippers will retain some versatility in case it does not work out. I think it'd be nice to just get him on 3 years like Kawhi. While you don't want to get stuck with an albatross, worrying about having a bad contract a few years down the line isn't really as high on the list of priorities for a win now team. It's much worse for us to lose the player for nothing with no way to replace the salary, no picks and no other way to improve. Could we entertain a sign and trade? Possibly, but he also would have to play ball with us on that.
|
|